Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Achernar's avatar

Woooo.

Let me tell you, I already read all of the series yesterday and these are fantastic (Remember starting reading theae before after I found you but got distracted...). I would love to write things about Hungary this way, but still lack the necessary knowledge and writing skills to be honest. Still, if I ever get there, I must reference these articles because there are many similarities, but also some differences too.

I also see that James is here too and I'm sure he can add valuable information to the subject, but I think he will be limited by the lack of interaction with 'them'. No offense meant. Still, hopefully I can add to the discourse.

Now, back to the subject. The causes for the low trust society are mostly the same over here. The middle class/civil society got massacred over here too. Still, this might have been the point where Hungary had a little bit of headstart despite being hindered by centuries of warfare with the turkish. Things really got going during the 19th century and...yes, here comes the obligatory Trianon reference. We lost too many of the cities (cities that had hungarian/german majority even if the countryside was other nationalites). Many of those who found themselves on the wrong side of the border did emigrate, but that almost always came with a loss of status and means. The real sting was the expulsion of the danube schwäbisch though after the WW2.

The parvenu is also a great element for this. During ths wild capitalism and privatisation years many people got rich fast(too fast and people knew what it was about) and almost all of them was deserving of the nook. But this place is too limited here for that.

For communism, the main difference was tha lighter restrictions for private enterprises.

And for the minorities. As James pointed out, you can't speak about it openly but most will have strong opinions about them. I would add that speaking openly in negative terms about any minority(past or current) is considered an ultimate 'faux pass'.(On hungarian reddit the slightest mentioning of them are results an instant lock of the thread while you can spew as much bile on the "peasants"/countryside people as you want) But you would be surprised how thin this barrier can be. Still, the inner city intelligentsia rules over this discourse while probably being the only ones who don't have experience dealing with them. This is partially because there are different groups of them that can be antagonistic even against eachother. And Budapest mostly got the more controllable ones.(this is changing though, and the city dwellers are not happy)

I'm originally from the northeastern part of the country so I have far too much experience with them. All I can say here, that the things are far worse in terms of cultural and other dominance than many even can imagine.

Expand full comment
James the Hun's avatar

The Gypsies are a fascinating breed indeed, we have a tonne of them here in Hungary, too. You are right to say that it is difficult to know their "allegiance", though here most of the population views them as a nuisance that commits a lot of crime and has a lot of children. And I do mean A LOT. For the first three years I lived here—when I was a disillusioned classical liberal—I thought the Hungarians were just racist, but now I know better.

It is wise to judge the Gypsies individually (many are fine people), though you know when you're dealing with one who could erupt into violence at any moment. Many of them are remarkably vulgar; and no, they do not observe the seven Cs you mention. I'm not sure they observe even one of those Cs.

Actually, many here are concerned about demographic change related to the Gypsies and I don't blame them. Is it the same in Romania? Hungary is not interested in cultural suicide like the rest of the West, yet the Gypsies are, at times, a concerning menace in Hungarian society. Perhaps mercifully, many are priced out of Budapest. I'm told that they dwell predominantly in Eastern Hungary.

And yeah: it's a catchy mnemonic that *could* get you a deal at Simon & Schuster; they gave one to Nancy Pelosi, after all (I'm sure she had a ghostwriter). With your permission, I might reference it in upcoming essays. Coining stuff is fun, eh?

Expand full comment
21 more comments...

No posts