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Khan's avatar

Very good read. Addressed a lot of my questions. The idea of the Balkan Romance languages migrating north to south is something I hadn't heard proposed yet, but makes a greater deal of sense with what you laid out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Latin

Supposedly the Pannonian variety of Latin is extinct, but it would seem to work well with your evidence if Pannonian Latin speakers just moved further into the Balkans and lived on as the modern Eastern Romance languages. The Adriatic coast up towards Pannonia was largely inhabited by Illyrian tribes in Roman times, so this could explain much of the "Albanian-like" substrate. But I'm not sure how much of the supposed words of Dacian origin are being conflated with what was likely a dialect continuum of "Albinoid" languages.

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Sectionalism Archive's avatar

Also, not really that related, but today there is a huge ethnic difference between the Stepnyaks of Crimea, and the Mountain/Coastal Tatars. The Mountain/Coastal Tatars have very little East Eurasian ancestry while the Stepnyaks have some of the highest among all non-Siberian Tatars. And, of course, Crimean Tatars are fairly close cousins to the Cumans. Albeit, I've heard the Stepnyaks have Nogai influence, and also that the other Tatars (in the hills and the coast) were more devout Christians

From an old Anthrogenica thread I found:

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Distance to: Crimean_Tatar_Coast_K13_sim_Avg

0.02794890 Greek_Macedonia:688

0.02992889 Turkish_Rumeli:Turkish_Selanik1

0.03007540 Greek_Izmir:GreecePhokaia60

0.03242397 Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10

0.03285642 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_7

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Distance to: Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_K13_sim_Avg

0.02951013 Turkish_Rumeli:Turkish_Gumulcine1

0.03210498 Turkish_Northwest:Turkish_Northwest2

0.03397035 Turkish_Balikesir:Balikesir16837

0.03730093 Turkish_North:Turkish_North1

0.03869003 Turkish_Balikesir:Balikesir17006

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Distance to: Tatar_Crimean_steppe:Crimean_steppe1

0.04037849 Tatar_Lipka:Tatar_Lipka3

0.04352549 Turkmen:TUR013

0.04545680 Tatar_Lipka:Tatar_Lipka4

0.04778858 Tatar_Lipka:Tatar_Lipka5

0.05130935 Tatar_Lipka:Tatar_Lipka6

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Distance to: Tatar_Crimean_steppe:Crimean_steppe2

0.03176766 Nogai:NOG-125

0.04360489 Uzbek:495_R02C02

0.04401422 Nogai:NOG-129

0.04830810 Tatar_Lipka:Tatar_Lipka6

0.04837552 Turkmen:TUR028

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Rumelian Turks are very European, they do have some East Asian but they are genetically close to Balkan Christians

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